“I think often that’s lost sight of, that it’s a tough job to live in a goldfish bowl.”

It is something Bennett recognises from her own time in government.

The former deputy prime minister describes parliament as “a really lonely place”, recalling nights staying at the Beehive until midnight while trying to send exhausted staff home at a reasonable hour.

Soper also shares insights on an era of parliament that would be unrecognisable today. He describes it as “ the RSA generation” and talks of MPs debating through the night fuelled by alcohol and cigarettes.

Meanwhile the press gallery looked on while snacking from a midnight toast trolley from the parliamentary in-house catering service Bellamy’s.

“In the old days … Parliament would sit all night,” he recalls.

“MPs would be up standing on the debating chamber floor, and they would be talking normally nonsense because they’d been up in Bellamy’s.

“ And I remember Rob Muldoon once standing swaying back and forth for about five minutes and saying nothing more than ‘Mr Speaker’.”

Soper believes Muldoon struggled deeply with loneliness after losing office.

“After he became a backbencher, he’d ring me around 5pm and say, ‘Mr Soper, what are you doing? … Come out for a scotch.’”

For Soper, the humanity behind political leadership is ultimately more interesting than policy battles or partisan point scoring.

“They are like anybody else, and they have the same wants, they have the same likes and dislikes, and they have the same passions,” he says.

“They generally are there, I think, to make the country a better place.”

Listen to the full episode for more on:

Barry Soper’s new book One Last Question, Prime Minister charts his decades in the press gallery alongside 12 prime ministers, from Muldoon to Luxon.

Ask Me Anything is an NZ Herald podcast hosted by former Deputy Prime Minister Paula Bennett. New episodes are available every second Sunday.

You can follow the podcast at iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.